Folate: Friend or Foe? If undermethylator, take no forms of folate until you see a biotype practitioner and get tested

wolf takeaway snippets

• methyl folate, it's not a better form
• any form of folate, folic or folinic acid will function the same over time
• if undermethylated, be very careful with folate
• if overmethylated, you'll thrive on folates
• folic acid strips more methyl than it provides

• folic acid is directly related to an increase in cancer rates
• undermethylated persons have a greater propensity to develop cancer
• overmethylators will not do well with methylfolate and do better with folic acid
• undermethylators will not do well with folate-rich veggies or folic acid as they strip more methyl than it provides making them feel worse, suicidal etc, so be wary/avoid

• in the nucleus, where we're trying to affect change, the command center, folic acid removes methyl, which can inhibit any detoxification process, because all forms of folate strip methyl at the level of DNA
• homocysteine requires folic acid to reduce, in very targeted dose for a specific time

https://www.samanthagilbert.com/folate-friend-foe/
by Samantha Gilbert

Yesterday I was perusing my fitness magazines and couldn't help but notice all the dietitians touting the importance of including more folate, from both food and supplements, for everyone.

And this got me thinking about how we are one of the wealthiest nations in the world, yet experience higher rates of disease and injury, and die sooner than people in other high-income countries.

So how did we get this way?

Well, it all started during the Industrial Revolution where removing the bran from the germ of grains through milling and mass refining seemed like a good idea because it meant that grain products could sit on store shelves much longer without spoiling.

Then at the end of World War II, bakeries in America began using large amounts of chemicals, additives, bleaches, and preservatives (as much as 25 different chemicals are added to refined grain and bread products) to create even longer shelf life. Because this process strips all the vitamin and mineral content from the original source, these foods are "fortified and enriched" with synthetic vitamins and minerals.  [if accidental, it'd be a series of as yet uncorrected errors across many decades, so its obviously calculated by design by smart guys, like big pharma and big tobacco labcoats, they always know what they're collectively doing, aware of the longterm consequences/fallout inherent with every choice, so the goal is to obviously to repeal and replace nature aka control nature species humans, see how fast some off us might adapt to the toxic epigenetic changes made to our DNA.]

And at the top of the fortified and enriched list? Yep, you guessed it, folic acid.

What's even worse is that in the United States and Canada, fortification became a mandatory practice in the 1990's.

And the result of this practice?

Higher rates of cancer and a massive increase in things like autism, depression, bipolar disorder, autoimmune diseases and diabetes to name a few. You can read more about that here and here.

Or to put it another way, we began experiencing changes to our DNA in the form of genetic mutations or SNPs (pronounced snips) that create disease states. And you can thank the holy heavens most of these are epigenetic is nature, which means that with diet, lifestyle and nutrient therapy, we can correct these imbalances. By the way, we all have SNPs, they just manifest differently for each of us.

So what the heck is folate?

Folate is a general term that denotes a group of water soluble b-vitamins (B-9), while folic acid stands for the synthetic compound used in supplements and to fortify foods. Much has been said about these two forms, with the general consensus being that it's ok in food form, but not so much in supplement form.

And herein lies the problem.

For those of us that struggle with cognitive impairments, any form of folate, folic or folinic acid will function the same over time, regardless of whether it comes from food or supplements.

And when it comes to methyl folate, it's not a better form, it's simply a different form.

In other words, if you are undermethylated, you need to be very careful with folate because it is a serotonin reuptake promoter, (antidepressants (SSRI's) are reuptake inhibitors and undermethylated persons respond well to these medications) so it will make you feel worse. This explains why my years as a raw vegan on a high folate diet yielded devastating results for me.

Now I know what all that green juice was really doing to my body. And why one man's food is another man's poison.

Overmethylated individuals, however, thrive on folates because they have too much methyl and folate is a powerful demethylating agent.

Folic acid works in different ways in different parts of the cells. The part we need to be concerned about is the nucleus because it's inside the cell that we see methyl loss, and folic acid strips more methyl than it provides. 1

Researchers involved in the treatment of cancer now realize that folic acid is directly related to an increase in cancer rates. Methotrexate, a drug used to treat cancer, acts by inhibiting the metabolism of folic acid. It's a great cancer agent, but unfortunately, patient's got worse and many died because folic acid was added back in. This is a good indicator as to why undermethylated persons have a greater propensity to develop cancer and do worse on folates. 2

You can read more about cancer and folate here, and the effects of diet and healthy aging here.

If you know of someone who could benefit from this post, please share it. It is through sharing that we create community, eliminate guilt and shame, and bring about healing.

Love, Sami

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giving an overmethylated individual more methyl is a bad idea and can lead to suicidal ideation. This is why regular folic acid is best [aka overmethylators will not do well with methylfolate and do better with folic acid, undermethylators will not do well with folate-rich veggies or folic acid as they will strip more methyl than it provides making them feel worse, suicidal etc.]

--Folate is a serotonin reuptake promoter. You can treat a methylation imbalance with folate, but If your body doesn't make enough methyl (undermethylation) and you struggle with depression/cognitive impairments, it will strip more methyl than it provides and make you feel worse. Antidepressants (SSRI's) are reuptake inhibitors and undermethylated persons respond well to these medications.

On the other hand, if you are an overmethylator, folate is a good nutrient for you.   [and if you're an undermethylator, folate in all its forms isn't good, keep reading she clarifies more later.]

I have many clients that saw a major decline in cognitive performance after embarking on a high vegetarian, folate-rich diet. Functional testing revealed them to be undermethylated, and they saw great improvements after eliminating trigger foods and incorporating an appropriate nutrient therapy protocol. This was my experience as well and why folate-rich (vegan/vegetarian) diets don't work for everyone.

You can still enjoy vegetables, however, if you are undermethylated, it's important to be mindful of those that are high in folates.

--Folate has at least 6 different forms and methylfolate, which recycles methionine to make SAMe is only one part of the several very important jobs that folate does. After methylfolate recycles homocysteine into methionine it becomes tetrahydrofolate, which can be used in several reactions. One of these reactions takes place in the nucleus of the cell by an enzyme called LSD1, or lysine specific demethylase 1. This enzyme takes a methyl group off of certain parts of histones, which control how our DNA is expressed, and transfers it to tetrahydrofolate, which then becomes another form of folate.

If in an individual person the ability of demethylate these histones is stronger than the person's ability to methylate them, which depends upon many other factors, then they can have undermethylated histones in their DNA and this may cause symptoms.

Why do I know so much about this? Because I have a son with schizophrenia and another with depression and they are both undermethylated (and have pyrrole disorder) and so I have done a lot of studying about this. My son with depression became depressed a couple of months after starting high dose folate. Any type of folate has the same effect on him and he is now on a folate limited diet.

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Im really surprised by these findings but intrigued and need to know more. I live in Oz so can't have a consult with you directly. I am working with a couple of practitioners who have trained with MTHFR.net.  This goes against everything I've read on the topic prior to now.  Not that I don't believe you, I'm just incredulous that this seems to go against whats being discussed in sites like MTHFR.net

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Genetic testing has no way of determining methylation status. We use a whole blood histamine and/or SAM/SAH ratio, but it needs to be performed with the right lab and specified protocol for accurate results. Keep in mind other testing is also essential in determining biotype status.

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The best way I can break this down is that if you struggle with any kind of cognitive issue, it's best to get properly tested before taking any form of folate (from food or supplements). Depending on your biotype, it may make you feel worse (if you are already low in serotonin) or better (if you have an abundance of it) because folate itself lowers serotonin.

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folate-rich veggies:  Spinach, chard, collard, turnip and mustard greens, broccoli, avocado, and asparagus are the main ones.

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maintain a low folate diet with occasional greens/romaine

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I don't recommend taking nutrients without testing first. The overstimulation could be from a variety of things, so it's difficult to know without a thorough assessment. 

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Is b12 in methylated form good for undermethylation?

Have you found that once things were stabilized, could you have limited amounts of foods with copper? I think avacodos are high in copper too.

If a person avoided most processed foods and then any supps with folate then would some greens a few times per week balancing things out?

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I do enjoy high copper foods once in a while such as an ounce of raw dark chocolate and a few almonds here and there, but for the most part, I stay away from them. It's important to stay on a low folate diet.

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wolfcomment:  i too wonder if methylated b12 acts similarly for undermethylators or if its 'safe' to take.

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My diet... I thrive on a high protein diet and since I workout a lot, I also make sure to get adequate fat and starches such as yams and MCT oil. I'm also mindful of not consuming too many high folate vegetables.  It's amazing how much better I feel without green leafy things. 

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The thing about genetic tests is that they have no way of determining the net effect of what the SNPs are actually doing in your body at the present time. I use functional tests (blood, urine and hair) to determine methylation status and other deficiencies and overloads. This is how your biotype is determined. If you'd like to set up a complimentary session to see how I can help, you can book that here.

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I recommend a masters degree program from an accredited institution that focuses on functional medicine and human nutrition.

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there is also a connection with high copper, low zinc, and protein deficiency, which I've gone into great detail here.  However, folate is a primary factor with methylation imbalances and must be taken into consideration for proper treatment.

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I have a similar story to you: Undermethylated, copper overload. Also have pyroluria, and a number of secondary issues. I have had a consult with a "walsh" practioner, however they recommended 1,000 mcg of methyl folate amongst other things and more red meat, protein based diet as apparently I am a fast oxidizer and "para-sympathetic" metabolic type.

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Please note the practitioner you mentioned in your booking is not Walsh trained.

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I'm a little confused. Isn't dietary folate a methyl-donor? So if a person is over-methylated, Dr. Walsh says the person should take folate since Overmethylated individuals have too much methyl and folate is a powerful demethylating agent.

Even Dr. Ben Lynch says that when a person is overmethylated with Mb12 and methyfolate, s/he should take niacin to "mop up" the methyls.

My question is, how is folate a powerful demethylating agent, when I read other statements saying that folate is a methyl-donor?

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What many people (especially practitioners) fail to understand is folic acid's role of duality. In one area, it's a donor of methyl, so for an undermethylator, they think folic acid or methylfolate is a great thing. In actuality, that's not correct because in the nucleus where we're trying to affect change, where the command center is, folic acid removes methyl, which can inhibit any detoxification process. This is because all forms of folate strip methyl at the level of DNA. DNA level is in the nucleus of the cell where all the instructions are made. That same folic acid works differently outside the nucleus of the cell where it actually gives lots of methyl into the system.

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Plants do not provide appropriate methyl donors for undermethylated individuals. Plant-based diets may feel good initially, but over time, can create a decline for the undermethylated person. Of course, it's always important to be sure other levels are tested, such as homocysteine, which does require folic acid to reduce, and would be used in a very targeted dose for a specific amount of time until levels are normalized.